MyDD :: We could have won the Vietnam War ! McCain

We could have won the Vietnam War ! McCain

by Politicalslave, Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 08:07:08 AM EST

"We could have won the Vietnam war we just lost our will to fight" (John McCain)

About 60,000 Americans were killed during the Vietnam war and 300,000 Americans were wounded.
The number of Vietnamese killed and wounded runs into the millions.
The Vietnamese are still suffering the effects of Agent Orange and the land mines that blow off their limbs to this day.
Billions of Tears and Broken hearts.

And yet Senator McCain says we could have won if only we hadn't lost our will to fight. Does anyone doubt that Senator McCain would be willing to attack Iran at the drop of a hat?
Under McCain how long would we be stationed in Iraq?
I get the feeling Senator McCain is not afraid of War at all. In my opinion under a McCain adminstration we could slip into world War 3 as quickly as you can say stubborn old man. Senator McCain gives "experience" a bad name. This wouldn't just be a third bush term. McCain would leave his "mark" and you can bet American blood would spill. If you think Bush has been bad wait until McCain takes office. Bush will look like a pacifist in comparison to where McCain will take us. To those of you who consider Senator McCain an option I ask you to consider who will pay the ultimate price for your vote and for what? I know one thing for sure, McCain will never lose his will to Fight! Joe Conason's report at realclear politics or Salon has more on this

Poll

Votes: 13
Results : Vote Link : Polls

Tags: McCain, Vietnam, millions dead, world war 3 (all tags)

Permalink :: 27 Comments :: Post a Comment

Re: We could have won the Vietnam War ! (2.00 / 1)

Unfortunately there is substantial minority of the US population that believes we could have won the Vietnam war. A combination of a dying or aging population that was around when the war was happening, simplistic nationalism, rewriting of history by conservatives, and American feel good propensities are responsible. No one like to admit they lost a major war, and certainly not the hyper nationalistic US. The simple fact is we did lose the Vietnam war and only achieved a draw in the Korean war. The two wars of the 20th century which the US indisputably won were WW 2 and the Cold War. Otherwise our "victories" were walk overs like Grenada and Panama. It's the reason why we were never going to get into a war with N. Korea and they knew it hence the collapse of all Bush and Cheney's bluster. It's also the reason there will be now war against Iran despite all the saber rattling because the consequences would be far worse for us than them. Iran is a nation of 80 million people with by far the biggest military in the area sitting on 10% plus of the world's proven oil reserves and with the ability to close the straights of Hormuz through which about 60% of the world's oil flows. With the US hovering on the verge of an economic meltdown because of oil prices (we consume 25% of the world's production) and an unstable financial system there will be no attacks on Iran.

by ottovbvs on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 08:22:32 AM EST

Re: We could have won the Vietnam War ! (2.00 / 2)

Thank you your reply is better than my diary.
I appreciate your insight. Hope to hear more.

by Politicalslave on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 08:45:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We could have won the Vietnam War ! (none / 0)

I agree with the sentiment of much of your post.

But I quibble with one, relatively major, point...

There are a substantial number of historians and reputable observers that believe we could have won the Vietnam War if we had kept fighting for another five years. This is not an unreasonable position. The North Vietnamese had taken very heavy losses (both to the military and civilian populations) and there is a real question about how long they could have kept fighting.

This should not be confused with the question of whether we did the right thing by ending the war. I feel that we certainly did.

John McCain: Extending SCHIP would be an "unfunded liability."

by Fuzzy Dunlop on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 09:25:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We could have won the Vietnam War ! (2.00 / 1)

The substantial number of historians you mention are all conservatives who are essentially advancing the stab in the back doctrine that something was going to turn up that would enable us to win and it was only prevented by the wimps and liberals at home. During this five years another 50,000 Americans would have likely died and hundreds of thousands of North and South Vietnamese. There was also the economic cost since the huge growth in public expenditures was a major factor in the inflation which set in during the late seventies. Basically the US public was not willing to pay these prices, not to mention the domestic discord which was ripping society apart because of the draft, on the basis of promises of jam tomorrow by a lot of discredited generals and politicians. That's what happened. It's like a gambler at the Roulette table who says if only I had another $200,000 I knew I could win a million instead of losing a million.

by ottovbvs on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 10:27:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We could have won the Vietnam War ! (none / 0)

Well, yeah. That's exactly what happened, but its beside the point. What they are arguing is that if the US public had been more willing to bear the costs of the war, we probably would have won within the next five years. In and of itself, that's a legitimate perspective. What's wrongheaded is the idea that it would have been worth it to do that, prolonging the war and costing hundreds of thousands of lives combined on both sides. That's what is ridiculous about the conservative position, not the idea that it might have been possible to win at all.

John McCain: Extending SCHIP would be an "unfunded liability."

by Fuzzy Dunlop on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 05:00:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We could have won the Vietnam War ! McCain (2.00 / 2)

McCain is not an option!

by Politicalslave on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 08:49:40 AM EST

Re: We could have won the Vietnam War ! McCain (2.00 / 2)

McCain is still fighting the Vietnam war. Does anyone really think he wasn't serious about the Iraq, 100 years comment?

The direct use of force is such a poor solution to any problem, it is generally employed only by small children and large nations. -- David Friedman

by pollbuster on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 09:10:35 AM EST

Re: We could have won the Vietnam War ! McCain (2.00 / 3)

I agree he is still fighting the vietnam war and he wants one more chance to "redeem" us.

by Politicalslave on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 10:48:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh, wow, I hadn't heard that quote. (2.00 / 1)

That's beyond disturbing -- it's completely warped. Thanks for posting this. Recommended.

Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.

by sricki on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 10:52:50 AM EST

Re: Oh, wow, I hadn't heard that quote. (2.00 / 1)

You are too sweet.

by Politicalslave on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 06:37:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We could have won the Vietnam War ! McCain (2.00 / 1)

Why is it so many of these neocons are themselves, for lack of a better word, draft dodgers? I know McCain served, but he seems to be the exception to the rule. I look at bush, Cheney, Rove, Limbaugh and have to wonder why they are so anxious to take us to war. I will not try to analyse them (repressing shudder at the thought), but it does seem telling that each of these men actively sought to remain out of harm in Viet Nam.

Again just skirting analysis, I wonder if McCain is trying to make up for something as well?

I ask these questions, because every person I know with real war experience, feels that this is not a war we should be in, and the that actions of this administration have been utterly criminal in regards to the Iraq war.

The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"

by Hollede on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:48:30 AM EST

Re: We could have won the Vietnam War ! McCain (none / 0)

To be fair anyone with a brain in his head in late 60's/70's America was a draft dodger. Many of the people like McCain, Hagel, Powell, Clark etc. who served meritoriously in a completely useless war were professional soldiers. The problem with people like Cheney and Limbaugh who had other priorities or boils on the ass is that all they are doing is exploiting the veins of genuine patriotism, simplistic nationalism and nativism that exist on the right to further today's political agenda. It's like Limbaugh's continual ranting about media and Hollywood elites. Well if he with his $400 million contract is not a media elite I don't know who is but a large proportion of the alleged 20 million who listen to his radio programs seem to miss this rather obvious fact. These guys are all as phony as a three dollar bill.

by ottovbvs on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 01:04:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We could have won the Vietnam War ! McCain (none / 0)

Well said. I just wonder at how they can fool the American people, I mean they are such obvious hypocrites.

The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"

by Hollede on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:59:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We could have won the Vietnam War ! McCain (2.00 / 1)

Oh and thank you for the diary and getting a couple people to talk about something really important.

Rec'd.

The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"

by Hollede on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:53:09 AM EST

Re: We could have won the Vietnam War ! McCain (none / 0)

"Unfortunately there is substantial minority of the US population that believes we could have won the Vietnam war"

It happens to be the same ignorant minority who think the South could have won the Civil War (and still will).

by Beren on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 12:57:06 PM EST

Re: We could have won the Vietnam War ! McCain (none / 0)

Yep these same people are romanticizing and wrapping in nostalgia a cause whose goal was the perpetuation of a monstrous evil. And then when they actually lost they went home and stopped blacks from voting, and lynched and burned them alive by the hundreds.

by ottovbvs on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 01:08:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And they wanted to do the same for Vietnam. (none / 0)

by Beren on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 01:12:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And they wanted to do the same for Vietnam. (none / 0)

Good analogies, there is kind of a sick pattern going back even to the civil war.

The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"

by Hollede on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 04:00:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We could have won the Vietnam War ! McCain (none / 0)

This video really drives it home. Especially, since it is a right-wing nut, like Pat Buchanan, doing the talking.

"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson

by MS01 Indie on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 01:58:40 PM EST

Re: We could have won the Vietnam War ! McCain (none / 0)

Thanks for the very moving link. I find myself agreeing with Pat on this issue, which is an odd place to be. He is a complete isolationist, so we have to be careful not to follow him too far into Buchanan world ;-). Though I am curious about his latest book, about how we should not have gone to war against Hitler, and he compares that conflict with our current situation in the Mideast and Iran and Afganistan.

The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"

by Hollede on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 04:36:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We could have won the Vietnam War ! McCain (none / 0)

Thank you Hollende. I'm pleased to be able to read your comments and Diaries more often these days.

by Politicalslave on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 06:23:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We could have won the Vietnam War ! McCain (none / 0)

Thank you. I am doing my summer vacation on mydd it seems.

The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"

by Hollede on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 10:00:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We could have won the Vietnam War ! McCain (none / 0)

me too

by Politicalslave on Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 08:04:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We could have won the Vietnam War ! McCain (none / 0)

MSO1 sorry for the late reply. This is a great link. It says it all. More Wars! In your face diplomacy!

by Politicalslave on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 06:29:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We could have won the Vietnam War (none / 0)

I don't know if people other than McCain types really care if we won Viet Nam or not. What is the definition of winning for these people? McCain is all about war and the military. He has very little else to say. I think he still has issues about his experience as prisoner of war that are far from resolved. He has channeled his anxieties and emotional injuries into becoming what he considers an expert on war and the military. That is okay for someone to do, in fact maybe even healthy, if only they are not running for the President of the US. The possible projection of his personal experience into the lives of everyone by becoming president and putting them into action is not appropriate and dangerous. He is better to handle his emotional issues in private and stay away from the country with them.

by Scotch on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 01:59:43 PM EST

Re: We could have won the Vietnam War (none / 0)

agreed

The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"

by Hollede on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 03:57:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We could have won the Vietnam War (none / 0)

Well said I always enjoy your take on things. What is the definiton of winning in Vietnam and in Iraq?

by Politicalslave on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 06:20:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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